When I was seven or so, I remember watching TV shows like “Three’s Company” and “M*A*S*H” and listening to AM radio playing songs like “Afternoon Delight”, “Undercover Angel” and “Kiss You All Over”. I didn’t really get the adult content. My parents didn’t fuss about it or change the channel. Sure, they wouldn’t let me watch “Soap” or “Saturday Night Live” but I turned out alright, even after I managed to sneak a peak at those shows.
Today’s seven year olds like TV shows featured on Nick, like iCarly and Big Time Rush, about tweens and teens acting goofy and having silly experiences. But, they are fans of artists like Katy Perry, Lady Gaga and the like that have lyrics and videos with sexual references. I still don’t think they really get the adult parts. Some parents disagree (and have apparently forgotten what it was like to be 7).
My seven year old daughter has a best friend that lives across the street. Their favorite activities were making up dances to songs and watching TV together. Unlike ours, her family is heavily involved in their church and are not big pop culture consumers. Recently, this friend told my daughter she was no longer allowed to watch TV shows, listen to pop artists and watch videos (except for Taylor Swift) at our house. My child told this friend that they probably aren’t going to play anymore since they weren’t able to share these things together. Afterwards, she was pretty upset about it and curled into my arms, crying.
This followed an episode where the same parents pointed out other behaviors they found concerning, such as her tendency to exaggerate stories a bit (which they likely considered “lying”) and what I saw as rather innocent versions of “playing doctor”. Whenever these issues arise, I make my best effort to address them with the parents and my daughter. Sometimes she gets punished for behavior she knows is wrong, sometimes it’s just a discussion to help her understand.
I’ve had a growing sense that these parents did not agree with our parenting style. My ultimate aim is to raise independent, knowledgeable, free-thinking children. This is quite clearly NOT their main goal. We let our kids make choices about who they are and set limits we feel are reasonable and socially proper. For example, I don’t allow my child to jump all over the furniture, climb on the kitchen counters and not sit politely for meals. Oddly enough, these neighbor parents don’t peep about that stuff. Yet, they will “interrogate” (their word) their child about situations and freak out over words and innocent actions they feel are not socially proper. Sure, I could have agreed that I would supervise the girls at our house constantly and make sure nothing age-inappropriate occurred, but an “overseer” sort of kills the fun of playing with your friends and limits their creativity, doesn’t it?
Of the four houses on our block with school-age children, only we send our kids to public school. All the rest are sent to religious-based private schools. Of these same households, I am the only mother who works full time. We are the only family that does not go to church. These disparities seemed a bit old-fashioned to me but their choices are their own. Frankly, this has not been as much of a problem as just a nagging feeling that we are simply the odd ones out. I frequently must explain to my kids how other families are different than ours.
Now, it seems to have grown into a bigger issue affecting us and the children. Incidents like this suggest to me that other parents are distrustful of our children and of us. Even though we have tried to smooth things over, I get the feeling they think we are a bad influence. I describe to other parents that I think the kids are experimenting with trying to find out who and how to deal with life’s realities. I try not to inhibit that but, instead, provide them with guidance on what is appropriate. Occasionally, I take a stand and my kids respect that even if they don’t like it.
This latest event has starkly revealed how very different our family is. It makes me sad – sad for the other children who are restricted from real life and all its diversity. Kids seem interested and confused about sex, relationships, race, gender issues, divorce, violence and world events. What kind of parent would I be if I just said, “That’s not appropriate for you to see or talk about,” and then punish them. I’d be irresponsible, I think. So, I chose not to be that. I choose to be upfront and open about all issues from drugs to sex, giving them as much information as they wish to receive. If not now, when will those conversations ever take place?
But, at the end of the day, it can be a lonely feeling being the most liberal parent on the block.
I know this feeling. I’ve got a little science geek on my hands and have already explained the rudiments of evolution to my kids. Which, in Georgia, might lead to some awkward confrontations at school. We’ll see.
I’m a product of public school, conservative religious upbringing and a lot of autodidactic research. Somehow I came out of it a rationalist, evidenced-based freethinker. My weird fear is that my grandkids will end up being home-schooled YECs. Hopefully a free and open environment at home will lead them to a freethinking and rational adulthood. We’ll see.
One reason my family moved from Manitowoc Wisconsin to far more liberal New England was that we were the “odd family out”. We did attend church, but a poorly attended Episcopal church. The Epsicopal church was considered one step short of atheist. I remember there was one openly gay person in the town. People would talk about her like “well you know, Margie is GAY, but she’s ok, she doesn’t mess with children.”. Moving to Vermont, I began teaching at a private Montessori school where I soon learned a parent/teacher meeting could involve up to 5 people. Mom, other mom, brother father figure, sperm donor and sperm donors girlfriend. Hey, can a child have too many people loving them? I think not.
Were the children of Manitowoc Wisconsin with their sacred Friday night football games and close knit family units with expected behavior clearly spelled out unhappy? Not really, and not most of them. Turn on the Duggar family. “19 Kids and Counting” at first looks kind of Stepford. But there is a predicatbility and a blandness that can be attractive. I’ve heard people say wistfully that they would love to be in a big family like that, where everyone loves you and dad never raises his voice. One teen I know said “I’ll bet they are never lonely”.
But what about the child with a “problem”? My elder daughter was in an afterschool program for “gifted children”. The after school program should have included tips on moving away from Manitowoc Wisconsin. Those children, were never going to fit in. My own “gifted” daughter when confronted with an almost Duggar sized group of relatives (during Xmas at her great aunts house) would lock herself in the bathroom with a book. For hours. At age 4. It was a SIGN.
She happily adjusted to the hippy atmosphere of the Montessori school, and attended until 8th grade when she informed me where she WAS going to go to high school. Her father and I ate peanut butter sandwiches to pay for it. Her little sister ended up being diagnosed as disabled. So we had a second child that would not “fit in”, but an environment that at least tolerated not “fitting in” has proven most beneficial. Where we live now, our neighbors are all very religious (of varied type though, unlike the all Lutheran neighbors of Wisconsin), and having skeptic partys (you put up a sign in your yard and at all the turns to your house saying “SKEPTICS TURN HERE!” and “ALIENS WELCOME!” and see what looks you get!) has lead to a pretty cold shoulder!
I think your parenting routine rocks. Maybe there are some nice kids at public school your daughter can invite over for a playdate? All a child needs is one or two good friends to be happy. Reality is that now most moms work full time and most children attend public school. So your child is the “normal” one. In the real world, if those children ever join it, they will be like fish out of water.
Do you kids go to church with the other kids?
Do not despair! You are building a great foundation with your daughter.
By providing age appropriate, objective information about some really confusing and profound parts of life, you are setting her up to be able to evaluate some of the toughest things about life in a rational, untainted way. You may feel like the odd family out now, but just sit back and watch for the next decade. My bet is that for all of the “protection” that the other parents are trying to provide for their kids, they are doing it at the expense of critical information that young people need to make good decisions.
When incomplete or tainted information meets inexperienced decision makers, the result is rarely desirable.
I’ve got two pretty free-thinking kids myself, and thankfully, in our area, we aren’t alone. Now, we are a little unusual, but there are enough parents with unique ideas nearby that we don’t ruffle too many feathers. (I’m also a product of public school and a conservative religious upbringing, and managed to come out a rationalist as well. Amazing, that!)
Thankfully it appears that the idea of “choosing your own path,” whether through public school, private school, parochial school or home schooling, as well as going to church regularly or not, appears to be more prevalent in the circles we move in.
I have always made an effort to be involved in the school activities and to get to know, at least a little, the teachers and other children and parents. Since I am a stay-at-home-mom, I was able to be a room mom often, a PTA officer for 4 years, and am still a committee chair, so maybe being visible and responsible has helped others form opinions of me that are more positive?
As for the folks in my neighborhood who don’t go to our school, I either don’t know them well, or I met them through our neighborhood swim team. In all cases, participating in the activities and being more familiar with the kids and parents has helped my kids be accepted and included, and a few times we’ve been lucky enough to find like-minded people to cultivate as friends. I also found out which parents and kids I don’t care for, and the ones whose behavior I want to keep from rubbing onto my children! I try to teach my kids how to act with respect, courtesy and kindness, and hope that others do the same.
Hopefully we can continue to find families and kids that are like-minded!
Oops – forgot some stuff!
I agree that kids generally only need a couple of really good friends among the sea of acquaintances they’ll know in life. If she can find some really good kids who love her for herself, and you can find some parents who you get along with pretty well, then that’s what is truly important.
Not everyone has the time or availability to do all of the PTA or community stuff, so maybe pick one or two activities that fit your schedule, that you can do with your daughter, to meet other families that might be more like yours.
I’ll admit, I’d likely be in your place if we hadn’t moved to a larger metro area. So if that is something possible, it might make a difference as well. Most people can’t just jump up and move, but if you can relocate to a place with more diversity in people, religions, politics, etc., you might find a better place for your daughter.
Please give her hugs from us. I hate the thought of any kid having to go through the pain of being “left out,” especially due to uptight parents!
I’m sorry you feel so alone, Sharon.
Ever watch people in a catholic church, chanting words that have no meaning to them? That’s what these parents want for their kids – to have a memorized set of behaviors and beliefs that have no hope of being used to learn or create.
I watched SNL and Soap with my parents, but at 10yo, I barely got the idea that Jodie was gay. I learned about adultery from watching Soap, and I learned that people always find out when you lie.
I knew a woman who, when talking to her 2 month old neice was asked by the mother, “Why are you talking to her like that? She can’t understand what you’re saying, you know.”
I couldn’t believe that a new mother could be that ignorant. How did she think babies learned to talk?
Children need practice reasoning and making decisions, which is why I don’t believe they should be sheilded from things like religion. That said, my husband’s carelessness at watching “Alien” with my older son when he was 2 haunted us for a couple of years. There is a line somewhere.
What we have much more of here are parents who allow their children to watch shows like Family Guy and South Park. Kids of Junior High age have demonstrated that misunderstanding these shows can have far-reaching consequences (they took “Kick a Ginger Day” seriously at a school in my area). But that is why those shows are not rated for kids.
I admit that I was very disturbed by an episode of “iCarly” that my younger son was watching recently. A character changed grades in the school’s computer and received almost no punishment. I was glad to be there to talk to my son about the reality of what would have happened to her, but at almost 10yo, he understood that already. He understood it because he’d had the opporunities to compare what he saw on TV with what happened in real life and he “got it”. So, if my son saw an episode of Family Guy at a friend’s house, I don’t worry too much. What doesn’t go over his head will be filed away as, “Oh, that’s just TV.”
BTW, our area is so diverse that my younger son, at age 8, had deep discussions about the existence of god with his 4 friends and no two kids had the same set of beliefs. My older son was being teased by a fundamental christian in the 6th grade for his confidence that there is probably life on other planets somewhere in the universe. The very confused bully said to him, “…and aliens did not build Stonehenge, GOD did!”
You sound like an awesome parent to me. If I were to get my way, all parents would be like you. But I’m childfree, so at best any opinion I might have is coming from the sidelines.
I think my mom use a similar parenting style. She told me once that the ‘why’ stage relatively easy for her becasue she’d explain thing in such detail that eventually my sister or I would just get tired of her talking.
Thanks all for your comments. If it were up to me, we wouldn’t have a TV at all so I try to limit it as much as possible and try to instill in the kids (and husband) that TV isn’t a real valuable use of time. I would very much like to live in a more diverse area. We had moved here from a much less diverse and far more prejudiced area. This was a big step forward but I’m realizing it might not have been enough for our needs. Perhaps someday. With school starting, I’m encouraging my daughters to reach out to new friends. I hope for the best.
I can understand shielding children from certain things, mostly because they are inappropriate for children, or that they do not line up to a parent’s moral compass. But we cannot shield them forever, and not discussing the things in life that may be encountered as they get older is highly important. For some that conversation happens at a younger age because of contact with things outside of mommy and daddy’s control. Parents should be able and willing to answer tough questions. If most kids are like mine were, prepared to be stumped, recognizing that they aren’t always satisfied with the simple answer.
But of course I am of the mind to protect my children fiercely all along preparing them for the day I kick them out of the nest to fly free all by themselves, with as many life skills I could stuff into them. Its a tough balancing act, but they seemed to turn out ok.
ok. Obviously the caffiene hasn’t quite hit my brain yet this morning I said
” But we cannot shield them forever, and not discussing the things in life that may be encountered as they get older is highly important.”
I should have said the first part and that it that not discussing those things can put the child in the position of being woefully unprepared for certain circumstances and how to deal with them, must less make wise choices.
*Eyes half empty cup of java dubiously.*
I am a little confused by your use of “conservative”. What defines a conservative parent? I ask because as I ask myself if I am a conservative parent, I honestly don’t know. Let me explain, politically I would say I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Since I am not religious, I am not conservative or liberal. When it comes to parenting, I tend to value research, personal experience, good ole fashioned common sense. I am pretty sure that doesn’t make me liberal or conservative.
I understand the point of your article but putting the word “conservative” really means nothing in this context. Look up the definition of conservative. It just doesn’t make sense here. Here is why I say that. An “unschooling” parent would call you a conservative parent. They would call most parents conservatives and they are the only liberal parents arounds. It is all very relative and adds nothing to your blog post.
I would argue the better term you are looking for is helicopter parenting style with a different set of values than you. I believe the best way for my son to learn anything is to do it on his own. I am just there to prevent him from getting seriously hurt and to help when asked.
Otherwise, this was an interesting article because I expect to experience the same type of situations due to religion, parenting style, and values.
Everyone welcome my cousin Jim to SheThought!
I understand what you mean Jim, and it is a good point. We are quick to use the word conservative when we are around mostly liberals, especially if we are liberals ourselves.
I think everyone knew what Sharon was talking about, but it is a good idea to remember what the religious right has done to the word conservative.
Yeah, I have never really liked the words Conservative and liberal used as labels. I think that they are way overused, and because of that too broad in definition. They also don’t always exactly fit in the original meanings of the words.
Conservative:
1. Preservative.
2.Moderate, cautious
3. disposed in maintaining existing views, conditions or traditions
Liberal: 1. of related to or based on the liberal arts. 2. generous, bounteous. 3: not literal. 4. not narrow in opinion or judgement
Those are some of the definitions as an adjective. As a noun, one needs to understand the adjective meanings. I also pulled off my shelf a 1989 edition of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary to get those particular definitions. More recent editions, especially online versions have the political viewpoint of the words as primary definitions. Shows how meaning changes over time. Those definitions sort of fit, but not exactly.
Hello. My name Sylvie Galloway, and I am a word nerd.
Well you know Heidi, I do like crashing your parties and causing fights. Too bad Penn isn’t here so I can stir the pot and run him off.
Jim you are ALWAYS welcome to my parties! Give your gorgeous wife and sweet baby a kiss for me.
I like this discussion; I agree with much of what’s being said. That may be surprising since you would probably define me as “conservative”. I’m Catholic (intentionally, not as a leftover from childhood), and I sent my children for part of their schooling to a private Christian school.
Our goals as parents were a lot like yours. We wanted our children to grow up to be articulate, thoughtful, reflective, kind, discerning facts from not-really-facts and drawing solid conclusions, with good real-life skills that would help them become great adults. (I’m happy to say we pretty much succeeded.) The way we chose to do that may differ from some other readers of this blog, but some of what we did was the same.
Yes, we often said “Sorry, but we’re not the same as that family, and that’s not how we do it here.” If some parents’ approach to what media was appropriate differed from ours, we worked it out with the other parents as gently as we could. Sometimes, it may surprise you, their kids went to the same Christian school ours did. These issues aren’t “freethinker vs. religious”, they’re just what parents do when they’re trying to be as good at it as they can.
Sure, we made mistakes. I probably was sanctimonious from time to time, and I know I allowed some things that, looking back (sometimes with feedback from my kids), I realized I shouldn’t have.
Being different is hard. It’s hard for Christian parents awash in a sea of atheists who expect that everyone thinks as they do. It’s hard for freethinkers amid religious people who assume that theirs is the “real” way to live.
Religious people aren’t brainwashed (I loved this, @Barb Drescher), i.e. “chanting words that have no meaning to them” and with “a memorized set of behaviors and beliefs”. I invite you to broaden your experience. You should hear our dinner table conversations.
Just want to say what a great blog you got here! I’ve been around for quite lots of time, but finally decided to show my appreciation of your work!
Well done, and all the best!
Cheers