Lately there has been a lot of discussion, especially in some Christian circles, about bigotry especially against gays. This particular discussion is very positive in theme and has been challenging the negative status mindsets that have become so prevalent in the church, especially amongst conservative evangelicals. Hard questions are being asked, and solutions are being offered using the tools of scripture, civil discourse and science to back up the better positive mindsets about our interaction with the gay community. Personally I find it most heartening.
I couple of months ago, I stumbled across a blogger named John Shore. Mr. Shore has managed to get himself a place at The Huffington Post’s religion segment. What got my attention was an article he had written about why women stay in abusive relationships. The article resonated with me, because I left one of those kinds of relationships and I could certainly relate to most of the reasons listed in that article. In Shore’s writings, I have discovered a man who’s views on Christianity and interaction within others in our communities that was refreshingly different and inclusive. Others obviously have noticed it because he often gets hundreds of responses to his blog entries, especially when he discusses Christianity and gays, and why the church needs to change their tune.
Reading his work, and that of a few others, I have strengthened my beliefs that bigotry has no business having place in my faith. Sadly it isn’t just the LGBT community that is facing bigotry within the church, they are just the ones getting a lot of attention. Hispanics (they will steal our jobs, and steal from us) liberals (they are going to turn the nation into a socialist form of marxism) Muslims (they are going to force conversions on us and bomb us to smithereens) are some of the others that some Christians seem to hate and fear. They are being fed this mindset repeatedly by a variety of means and to stand up and say “NO” is to often risk a chance to be cast into the mix of someone to hate because doing so means that you stand for sin and depravity and against God’s word and his purpose for man,
I am sure that like you, I find the line of thinking of that last sentence to be a load of crap.
I then read a manifesto by a pastor named John Shelby Spong. Pastor Spong is an Episcopalian pastor who has long been doing work to bring inclusiveness to his denomination. He believes in the beauty of diversity and that separating some because they are different or don’t fit into some preconceived mold is wrong and differs from the teachings of the Christian faith. His manifesto statement was a quite startling. In it he declares:
I have made a decision. I will no longer debate the issue of homosexuality in the church with anyone. I will no longer engage the biblical ignorance that emanates from so many right-wing Christians about how the Bible condemns homosexuality, as if that point of view still has any credibility. I will no longer discuss with them or listen to them tell me how homosexuality is “an abomination to God,” about how homosexuality is a “chosen lifestyle,” or about how through prayer and “spiritual counseling” homosexual persons can be “cured.” Those arguments are no longer worthy of my time or energy. I will no longer dignify by listening to the thoughts of those who advocate “reparative therapy,” as if homosexual persons are somehow broken and need to be repaired.
The rest of the article explains why he is taking that stand. While I utterly agree with his views on how the Church is wrong in condemning homosexuality I disagree with his decision to opt to no longer engage in dialogue about this matter. This is why. Those of us in Christianity who feel that the movement to forever keep gays on the outside of the church is completely and utterly wrong are a minority. Many disagree with us and just can’t understand why we can calmly state that we believe what they say and encourage others to believe is wrong. They also don’t know how to counter thoughtful, factual evidence that supports our views, and instead opt to attempt to lump us in with “those sinful reprobates”. Spong’s views that “we’ve already won this battle, all that is left are skirmishes” is to me short-sighted. The attack against the LGBT community is just one in a long line of ethnic or cultural communities that some in the Christian faith have decided to treat in ways that starkly counter those of the one they profess to emulate.
We need to continue to stand against bigotry of all kinds and to do it reasonably, yet passionately. We need to demonstrate that the Christian form of love encompasses all human beings, not just those that fit into our little cubbyholes of acceptance. We need to demonstrate that we welcome people into our little circle and who they are, with ethnic, cultural, religious, political differences being assets rather then liabilities. We need to find delight in the diversity of humanity and see the value that can be brought to the collective table. We need to, must continue to work towards that goal, even if it seems impossible. Jesus said blessed are the peace makers. What a better way to bring that about, then by breaking down cultural barriers so that we can see how alike we really are?
Mr. Spong has been fighting this fight much longer then I have. I can respect his decision to step away to most likely focus elsewhere also needed. I do wish he would stay, and that there were many more like him. My war against inequality and bigotry is just beginning. Maybe he is stepping aside to let new voices step in and carry on the fight. If so, I can thank him for his example and dedication, as well as people like John Shore and gladly add my voice along with them so that one day we can see these horrendous actions come to an end.
I went to three different high schools (long story) and then tested out before my senior year. Two of those school were parochial girls schools. My mother tells me I asked to go to an all girls school becasue boys make things complicated (which totally sounds like me) and I think it’s funny becasue I was aware of being an atheist before I started parochial school.
I’m certainly not an expert on Christianity but I do remember talk in religion class (both times) about how we interpret the bible becasue the text was written by men who wrote through the eyes of their time. The implication being that we’re supposed to reject certain parts of the bible becasue they don’t make sense in this time.
Following that train of logic, ignoring the few (possible) references about how homosexuality is bad is just interpreting the text for our time.
I’m one of those atheists that doesn’t have a problem with religion. Hoping there will one day be interfaith dialog that includes us atheists. I mean, I’m not going to define for someone else their values/worldview (long as they don’t impinge on me living my life.) But if I were Christian, that’s the way I’d look at homosexuality.
Extra little anecdote. When my mom, at 40, realized that she’d fallen in love with a woman, she was told not to come back to the Roman Catholic church that she’s been attending for years. A couple years later she started attending a Unitarian church with her partner.
When one church wasn’t welcoming, she didn’t give up on her belief system, she just moved onto to a church that was welcoming.
You hit upon a very important fact Elizabeth, the fact that we tend to forget that the words of the Christian bible were written in a very different time frame and culture. The writers and the original readers of the text had absolutely no concept of some of the social norms we take for granted today.
Of course there is great value to be found in that text. We can look at how people made mistakes, and learned from them, we can glean how civil matters were managed in that part of the world at that time, we can see examples of behavior, good and bad, and a lot of that type of behavior mirrors our own at times. But we MUST remember that the social structure of the BCE or the turn into the CE is not the social structure of the modern era.
Of course one of the problems with this whole bigotry matter along with some others found within Christianity, is the willingness to pick and choose which ancient Mosaic laws to trump up to back up their beliefs, while ignoring all the rest. Especially any that may possibly point to them.
Sylvie: As always, you make a very compelling argument for reason in Christianity. “We all need to continue to stand against bigotry.” Seconded.
Also, I know you mentioned this just in passing, but I wanted to send a virtual hug for escaping an abuser. That takes real courage.
The fact that the bible was written by men based on their time and culture that I abandoned Christianity. Not only that, but there were dozens of Gospels that were considered heretical by the church but that were widely read and believed in the early church. It became so obvious that the bible and the church are the creations of men, not God, that I could no longer consider myself a Christian, nor even a believer.
Thanks for the hug AU. I am still cautious about advertising that little fact, because it is still fairly fresh, and I will in 16 days be done. SIXTEEN days till my divorce is final. (SC and their stupid wait a year laws) Then there is the fact that my ex and I still have family and friend connections. I normally cross post what I write on my personal blog, which always gets sent to Facebook, but this one I opted not to. It is out of respect for the feelings of those connected friends and family that I tread carefully at times.. That and I don’t want to sound like a bitter, vindictive bitch.
I personally will never try to convert someone over to my side, even with the best baked cookies I can buy, but I sometimes feel the need to state that not all of us are completely out of touch with reality or fit into those negative molds that has been constructed. At the same time, the more I learn, the more I find wisdom, and value in other views sacred and secular. I’d love to see more interfaith dialogue as Elizabeth suggests. It is happening, but not nearly enough
It was, in the end, reading the Bible again and really, honestly seeing it and seeing that, if it was written by God, I could never worship him, and if it was written by man, I had no real reason to believe it. To me, the first part is a screed of genocide and the latter a confounding of what may have been genuinely positive teachings diluted to the status quo.
I respect Christians who want to maintain that there’s room in the kingdom for the LGBT community, but I couldn’t find it no matter how much I wanted to.
While I am agnostic I try to have civil discussions about religion with religious people on occasion.
I find most who disagree with homosexuality explain it as while the Bible was physically written by man, it was divinely inspired by God, so in truth it is his word even if the pen strokes were made by the hand of a mortal. As God is all-knowing the teachings and laws he gave to us then would have just as much meaning now.
This opens up discussion for a whole number of questionable bible quotes, but that is a different argument about picking and choosing.
Katherine, you touch on the whole fallacy that the bible is the “literal word of God”. Even though I am a Christian I simply cannot buy that mindset. I See problems, big problems with that line of thinking.
There are many quotes that are most certainly up for debate for a bunch of reasons. Why they may even be debatable is often a subject of debate. One reason may be the simple realization that simply don’t quite understand just what the author was saying, because we don’t exist in his time frame, or the culture and social structure of that day. The entire book of Revelation may fall under that category.
However there is some real value in the Christian texts as there are in other religious text. In fact I am of the mind that those similarities may have more of a divine influence then we may suppose. It’s possible, but boy is a challenge to open that thought up for discussion. It is those type of discussions that I wish we had more of, especially of the civil type as you prefer Katherine.
That being said, I am considering taking one of those quotes and putting a personal insight into it. I keep coming back to the whole “how we should be treating each other” thing topic wise. This will fall in line.
But first finding the time to write coherently.