SheThought Store!

Recent Forum Posts

  • Title Car Loans

    posted in forum Kudos and Complaints  by peterpaul008 on April 24, 2012 at 12:34 am

  • Trampoline Parts

    posted in forum Topics You Want Covered  by Paul077 on April 4, 2012 at 1:14 am

  • 1800getacar

    posted in forum Kudos and Complaints  by devinbutler30 on April 2, 2012 at 12:30 am

  • Weight with Raw food

    posted in forum Topics You Want Covered  by Paul077 on March 11, 2012 at 8:22 am

  • Other_Resources Links

    posted in forum Kudos and Complaints  by stakesrbuds on December 7, 2011 at 5:16 am

She Tweets


    Them!

    An unrelated pictures about a band from the 60ies.

    Them ! They stink don’t they ? They are stupid mouth-breathers with nothing but deceit and bad intentions in their tiny, tiny minds.

    Who are they, you ask, already readying yourself to agree with me (because, seriously, who can stand them)? Well, it all depends, doesn’t it? Who ‘them’ are actually depends about who ‘us’ are. We are good, virtuous, intelligent and good smelling. Them, they are the others, the ones that are not… (and yes, that does, technically include giant atomic ants, but as far as today is concerned, my topic is broader).

    The human mind, you see, is extensively tribal. Not only there seems to be a limit, of approximately 150 people, to the number of individual our brains can effectively process as part of the extended tribe but one of our most fundamental psychological needs is the need to belong to community. The problem is that, within such groups, the members will tend toward unanimity. Not only are we unwilling to risk affecting our status within the group by appearing to disagree with the prominent opinions, but we also, at an even more fundamental level, want to minimize the conflict, tensions and cognitive dissonance that come with such disagreements. The negative consequences of such unwarranted unanimity (the prevalent term, popularized by the psychologist Irving Janis, for this behavior is ‘groupthink’) have been illustrated by many anecdotal cases. This situation, in short, could be summarized by a quote from Nietsche’s (in his book ‘The Dawn’, published in 1881): “The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.”

    But, there is another side to this problem, because a community is defined as much by who is outside of it than by who is inside: If you think of an easy representation for your community, you will probably end up labeling a little circle. There, the line of the circle, acts as barrier between the community and the rest of the world, where the ‘Them’ run free…

    Not only is the disagreements the ‘Them’ so shamelessly flaunt an insult to all these beliefs that we hold so dear, such exposure to contrarian ideas cause a risk to the groupthink and, eventually, to the very community we belong to. It is, therefore, quite a natural development for a community to polarize, and to simplify caricaturize and diabolize the other side (after all, they probably fall well beyond the 150 people limit we can process) creating a ‘with us or against us’ mentality…

    To give a particularly example, Rush Limbaugh recently vehemently attacked the automobile reviewer ‘Motor Trend’ over their choice of the Chevy Volt as car of the year for 2011. Such vehemence might, at first glance, seem surprising. But, in fact, Limbaugh’s trend of thought is easy to trace back: The Chevy volt is, as the name suggest, an electric car. The people pushing for such a type of engine are people concerned about global warming, an issue that Limbaugh’s tribe has often dismissed in the most vitriolic terms. By promoting an electric car, Motor Trend is therefore guilty of siding with ‘Them’. And, as such, deserving of Limbaugh’s ire…

    Closer from our regular topics of interest, the Anti-vaccine crowd is pretty infamous for such practices. Particularly egregious is the case of the McCafferys whose child died of Pertussis in March 2009. The McCafferys were quite vocal about their child’s cause of death and it did offer a chilling contradiction to the AVN, and Meryl Dorey’s, stance that “You didn’t die from it 30 years ago and you’re not going to die from it today”. The McCaffery, therefore, became “the enemies” and were subjected to a campaign of harassment and hatred. In the US, the blog Age of Autism published last year a pictures of some of their principal opponents eating a baby as part of their thanksgiving feast, among other, rather reprehensible, behavior. The latest occurrence in this shameful series was last week when skepchick Elyse Anders  was attacked in the vilest, most disturbing and hateful of terms over the Age of Autism’s facebook page.

    Now, that does not surprises me too much, it might be my own prejudices showing, but I am not expecting much in term of balanced and reasoned argument from Mr. Limbaugh. Similarly, I am not surprised by any excesses from the crusaders of anti-vaccination. What I am most concerned about is when such Manichaeism shows up within my own thoughts which, I must admit, is much too often. It is something that I do, recognize, though, and on which I am making a conscious effort.

    Then, there is the risk of my own skeptical community to go through a similar reply onto itself, such a close-mindedness, after all, would be directly antithetic to our values and goals. For example, there has been some tendency of attacking Jenny McCarthy, for her past as a playmate, as it was freaking relevant to the debate. Indeed, the attacks on her person have sometime taken a disturbing sexual and misogynic tone.

    Now, before it turns into the old accommodationist/confrontationists argument, I want to mention that such phenomenon can work at any level. It is entirely possible for a faction within the skeptic movement to summarily and unfairly dismiss another faction as a bunch of jerks more interested in conflict than in meaningful arguments. To behave, in short, dickishly toward the dicks… Especially as, as mentioned, snark and confrontationism do have a positive effect that help giving the community more cohesion. So it probably as its role, as long as it is reasoned and not a knee-jerks “us versus them” tribal reflex…

    Nonetheless, because this kind of shortcuts in our thinking, our tendency to put people into well ordered boxes, in clearly delimited camps of good and evil, is so very easy to fall into, it is a danger to keep in mind at all times. This is a trap that is always waiting to open under our mind and cloud our judgments. A fallacy we should always be wary of and one that we can only counter through a constant effort to truly listen to those we disagree with you and understand their true motivations rather than to reduce them to two dimensional caricatures (I mentioned earlier how, for example, misguided and hateful as their positions can be, many anti-vaccers are acting on a personal desire to do good and are motivated by personnal sufferings and tragedy one can not help but sympathize to). Our judgments, to put it another way, will only be truly guided by reason, if they are also inspired by compassion.

    And that, my friends, is way enough pontificating for today, at least from my part as this is a heated issue and some of you probably have strong opinions… The comment section is waiting for you!

    6 comments to Them!

    • avatar Geminize

      Thank you for making such a crucial point! I attended Skepticamp Vancouver this fall, and was struck by the pervasive “us vs. them” dichotomy. This is a false dichotomy, as people can be arranged on a spectrum from the most deluded true believers to the most staunch skeptics. (My bias is showing.) Polarization (“tribalization”?) rarely serves the purpose of furthering the debate or convincing anyone to critically examine their own beliefs. It is an easy trap, but one that would be best to avoid if we want to contribute to a real change toward critical thinking.

    • Oh brilliantly stated. I thought the point of critical thinking is to look at things objectively, and to discuss viewpoints objectively and respectfully. Of course it is so easy, as it is our human nature to categorize people somehow. I would say this is no different. Pointing out that it occurs is something we need to keep reminding ourselves about.

    • Simon! You’re awesome. So much debate, whether in the skeptical community or the larger culture, seems to devolve into the false dichotomy and awful attacks you mention. It’s as if Limbaugh et. al. have established new rules of engagement that actively prevent reasonable disagreement. It’s also hard not to rise to forcefully counterattack.

      It’s really hard to remember that most regular, pedestrian anti-vaccine parents came to this belief out of concern and love for their children.

    • avatar Deb

      I think part of the inherent shortcut in our thinking is also a tendency to take labels as reality. Like you say, it is very easy to forget that anti-vaxxers are mostly loving parents. And there is a also a tendency to think ‘Well I’m a skeptic, I must be being skeptical.’ Just looking at the comment threads in skeptical blogs should do away with that idea, with people pointing out other’s logical fallacies or assumptions all over the place.

      Does that mean half the skeptical community aren’t skeptics? No, it means they are trying to think critically and don’t always succeed, or that issues are complex and values or feelings may play a role as well. We all make mistakes. But we can only identify and learn from those mistakes if we acknowledge the possibility that we’re making them.

    • avatar Simon Menanteau-Ledouble

      Thanks for the kind words, everybody, I was a bit worried of being to preachy…

      And Deb, I think, part of the issue is that people are complex and can alternate between several means of reasoning.
      I might be very rational about certain subject, for example, BigFoot or UFO but, at the same time, have some particular one that I just can’t be rational about, for example, because of my education… In my case, for example, I sometime have to struggle a bit to give politically conservative ideas a fair listen, because I have always be such a staunch liberal…
      Alternatively, I might be tempted to make excuses for this person’s behavior, because I like him or his writings style… Or, on the contrary, this person tempt to rub me the wrong way for whatever reason, maybe his voice just sounds to whinny, and I am tempted to dismiss his point out of hand…

      Being rational is not part of the human nature. We need to realize it and make provision around it. It is not as much of a problem if you realize it and scrutinize yourself. But it is all too easy to make irrational judgement calls and then make excuses around it…
      Tribalism, this tendency to define between our own camps and ‘them’ in stark black and white color is one such a irrational mechanism…

    • avatar Badger

      Well done, Simon.

    Leave a Reply

     

     

     

    You can use these HTML tags

    <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>